LIVE FROM THE EDINBURGH FRINGE: Joey Jennings and Little Pink Dress

00:00:00: on today's episode.

00:00:01: Are you trying to work that out in therapy as well?

00:00:03: I'm not trying to say a glib about this, but it's like what is in the drivesuit.

00:00:06: and why are we doing

00:00:07: this?

00:00:07: The wise self will talk about...the wise self is one driving the car.

00:00:12: um i think they'll be my young joey sitting in his lap.

00:00:19: They're kind of know-what-to do And I am the self standing by ready to protect.

00:00:29: You know, make sure that we don't crash or anything.

00:00:34: Wow!

00:00:34: Would you listen

00:00:35: to that?

00:00:36: That is unbelievable.

00:00:40: It clearly isn't the start of a British bank holiday weekend.

00:00:44: Honestly it's absolutely

00:00:45: hidden down here

00:00:47: In Edinburgh like its across much of the UK

00:00:49: at the moment.

00:00:50: So

00:00:52: I am clearly stood outside last Friday Of

00:00:54: The Fringe

00:00:55: and

00:00:55: can feel not just the weather.

00:00:57: The numbs are up these last two days and there's a bit

00:01:00: of the final rush on.

00:01:01: And

00:01:02: every artist in

00:01:03: this city is

00:01:03: out making the most of what

00:01:05: social scene,

00:01:06: getting that last bit of promo done doing that last networking.

00:01:09: everyone has absolutely exhausted wired tired the works one eye under finishing line.

00:01:15: now we've been highlighting some of the best queer artists and comedians here at the World Biggest Arts Festival all month!

00:01:22: Todays is genuinely fascinating one Joey I don't know why i decided to do this outside.

00:01:27: Joey Jennings has come in to do the whole of August with a little pink dress.

00:01:32: It's an absolutely astounding piece, really what it is based on many things that many of us as queer people have experienced or our friends who've been through some of these things... ...it's a queer country music crossover.

00:01:45: there was bit dark comedy and goes places where you will take a listen to my chat with a lovely Joey Jenning.

00:01:56: Labour

00:01:57: might say, how high?

00:01:58: And it's not

00:01:59: true.

00:01:59: It is offering

00:02:00: people false hope.

00:02:02: Sex.

00:02:03: Vating apps have become a breeding ground for the worst of human behaviours and culture.

00:02:10: What do you want to hold me?

00:02:11: We get together with... Be simple.

00:02:13: Simple!

00:02:14: Be simple.

00:02:14: from here You will like go

00:02:16: nudge himself off.

00:02:18: This Is Outcast World.

00:02:23: The show is a little pink dress.

00:02:27: There's a real little pink dress at the centre of this.

00:02:30: Isn't there, Tommy?

00:02:32: Tell me about that day.

00:02:32: you found The Little Pink Dress.

00:02:34: Tell me your story.

00:02:35: Yeah so well... ...the whole thing really began in twenty-twenty In May.

00:02:44: It was kind around my birthday.

00:02:46: I was pretty..in low headspace At the time and i just One night, really early in the morning I guess it was like around three or four.

00:02:58: I was still up and couldn't sleep And um...I just started writing this song which has ended being my first song on the show.

00:03:08: that kind of has all the threads Of the story in the show In one song.

00:03:13: then i went to bed and woke up and wrote a second song.

00:03:20: It's kinda snowballed from there, and most of the songs were written that summer in twenty-twenty.

00:03:30: And a lot it is about my relationship with mom.

00:03:34: I'd say three touchstones are like you know being an actor in LA or pursuing a dream in

00:03:39: L.A.,

00:03:39: um...and uh..being gay You know?

00:03:43: Um...growing up Gay!

00:03:46: Then also My Relationship With Mom.

00:03:50: When i was Kind of when I saw my mom and I told her about what was going on.

00:03:55: She said well if I was If I was writing a one-man show, I would definitely write about your little pink dress.

00:04:02: And I said oh like Oh didn't really think of that.

00:04:07: So it actually was with her idea to include this Little Pink Dress that i used to wear as A little kid.

00:04:14: um I Used To sleep in It I used to dance and then you know do everything In it especially just in the Privacy Of My Own room, as a young like you know six-seven year old.

00:04:26: Very much into this by Skrulls very much until like Brittany Spears, Celine Dion, Cher and yeah so Little Pink Dress.

00:04:38: the song Little Pink dress I'd say is like The Heart of the show.

00:04:41: it's very cross round roll.

00:04:44: its music is country rock but it's a lot of musical theatre, there is like traditional folkloric Sicilian music.

00:04:54: There is a Christmas song... It kind of runs the gamut.

00:04:58: But I'd say Country Rock Is The Through Line.

00:05:04: You were an actor in LA with proper credits and everything And you just mentioned before about that version.

00:05:12: What was that version of Joey Lake?

00:05:15: Ooh good question.

00:05:16: Um, oh God

00:05:25: sounds like it was different.

00:05:28: It was um gosh You know he I think that version of Joey really Really?

00:05:39: Wanted to and I don't know you know II really pursued The serious actor of LA dream for a long time, you know little over ten years And is exhausting its really draining.

00:05:57: it really killed my spirit.

00:06:01: And yeah, in twenty-twenty I remember thinking like okay if i'm gonna do this.

00:06:05: I want to redefine what it means to be a performer.

00:06:08: um...I wanna do a show and get in touch with that inner child.

00:06:14: really The reason why I started doing theater as young kid You know?

00:06:20: I grew up watching.

00:06:22: you know A lot of shows like ABC Family The Disney Channel and just you know, that's I don't know.

00:06:33: I just wanted to like.

00:06:37: I Don't know.

00:06:37: LA really changed too with like, you know social media stuff And God i don't Know That is Really hard for me To answer because it's such a Like.

00:06:49: It was dark Yeah, yeah, it Was Definitely A Dark Time.

00:06:55: um Yeah, I was You know also Drinking drinking a lot and other things.

00:07:06: And just, yeah I was really you know but... Yeah i moved to New York in twenty-twenty

00:07:19: five last year?

00:07:20: What drove the move to new york?

00:07:22: Just

00:07:22: fresh start what ?

00:07:24: I think exactly that like wanting to redefine myself as a performer .I think doing this show You know reason why but But yeah, I got sober in twenty-twenty three before recording all the music and And then gotten therapy an early twenty-Twenty four.

00:07:46: Then did a year of that pretty intensely and was on defense about moving the whole time Yeah And then moved to New York.

00:08:00: it's been really great really stimulating.

00:08:03: I felt like living in LA was, swimming around in an open wound i'd say.

00:08:09: Okay yeah and as soon there's a lot of things tied to people aren't they?

00:08:15: And when the people that kind often cause them kinds of things are not their anymore...I just feel it becomes easier.

00:08:26: Yeah definitely Yeah, I definitely feel more aligned spiritually and culturally and Creatively in New York.

00:08:37: I'd say at the moment um i definitely love Seeing people I feel like in LA.

00:08:44: you really uh?

00:08:47: Don't know it's just really hard to-I feel Like in la You are Are ashamed for having a dream And then In new york your kind of like.

00:08:57: It's Kind Of embarrassing if you don't have one.

00:08:59: you Know what I mean right.

00:09:02: So the show is about a kid who tries to make it in Hollywood.

00:09:07: It sounds like your idea of hollywood was set as a kid from, you said Disney Channel and this kind of thing... And then you get into it but there's nothing that leaves you.

00:09:19: The wound is just between what we thought would be.

00:09:22: And so Hollywood made, did it ever feel like?

00:09:29: It was making you into someone else.

00:09:31: I think that's what i'm trying to say here.

00:09:32: Did You Feel Like It Was Trying To Make You Into Somebody Else Than You Didn't Feel Comfortable In That Role?

00:09:36: Absolutely Um...I Do Think That Like I..I Was Kind Of Always Trying To Play This Like Straight Character um...It Definitely Affected.

00:09:46: I Think My My Relationship Was Like My Sexuality Is Crazy.

00:09:52: You Know I'M Gay and Like.

00:09:53: I Think That I Was Often Like but in, or auditioning for roles that were like straight characters as much as I was for gay too.

00:10:02: But like i just think that like...I don't know..i was constantly fighting this idea to be a hyper-masculine version of myself and i think that's where the country music kind comes in.

00:10:20: there is really funny juxtaposition between masculine and feminine in country music.

00:10:29: Really?

00:10:29: I always think of country music as being hyper-hypermasculine, this is why for me what you decided to do was so creatively interesting.

00:10:38: You've got the undercurrents of hyper-masculinity within country music And then...what YOU'RE bringing into it!

00:10:45: It's happened that seems at point where you left LA for Brooklyn in twenty twenty five.

00:10:49: So..it was a coincidence.

00:10:51: all these came together.

00:10:52: Yeah, it

00:10:55: really was.

00:10:58: It was... yeah I didn't expect-I mean i grew up on country music and I definitely enjoy writing like the narrative storytelling in country music?

00:11:12: And yeah, there's this country.

00:11:21: There was like I guess cowboy character in the show that is a hyper masculine version of myself trying to you know mask as something that i'm not um In order to like succeed in Hollywood.

00:11:35: Um and I think throughout the show That just like slowly gets stripped away and there's moments where I put the hat back on and it's You know putting the mask back on And yeah, I really like flipping that on its head and being an out-proud country singer in my own way.

00:12:05: Even though I don't identify as a country singer.

00:12:08: it's kind of weird.

00:12:10: since releasing music...I feel friends or family who i'm sharing with.

00:12:14: finally because I did keep under wraps for so long friends and family are like, oh you're pivoting to country music.

00:12:20: I'm like no it's really a concept within this show.

00:12:25: um i enjoy writing country music.

00:12:27: everything is really fun but that's not the only kind of music i like to write or sing.

00:12:34: You recorded the album in Nashville with an eight piece band.

00:12:39: what did you learn about the songs when you took away?

00:12:43: all It is

00:12:48: really stripped back and the dream, Really?

00:12:50: Is to perform it with the full band.

00:12:52: who is?

00:12:53: Who's on board.

00:12:54: And I you know watching videos of like my time in Nashville Just Like i really miss being With them.

00:12:59: and i missed like.

00:13:01: i just saw a show In new york and it was A one-woman Show and she had a Band with her On stage and that Was just like I need to be doing it.

00:13:09: Like, like...I NEED that!

00:13:11: I want to talk with the band and interact with them.

00:13:13: but yes this version for Fringe where its very stripped back and we're going into the instrumentals i feel incredibly exposed..i feel ummm....very vulnerable.

00:13:29: yeah there's nowhere to hide Have yet to get sick of the music and like performing it.

00:13:41: I really am still finding, you know The moments The arc they're like that the journey I guess.

00:13:54: Yeah

00:13:56: yeah.

00:13:56: so the show talks about breaking cycles with generational trauma.

00:14:04: And what was the moment?

00:14:06: You realized The this cycle was yours to break.

00:14:10: I mean, I think everybody's got one a cycle of generational trauma that they need to.

00:14:14: They feel the needs who interrupt.

00:14:16: but yeah when?

00:14:17: what was the moment you realized hang on?

00:14:19: Mmm-hmm.

00:14:22: I would say it was somewhere in my twenties.

00:14:26: Oh My gosh There were some where my twenties and it was a well as it was honestly getting sober.

00:14:42: Yeah it was getting sober and yeah that's really it.

00:14:52: I

00:14:52: hear that, um...

00:14:53: Yeah?

00:14:53: ...yeah i did the same thing myself in two thousand twelve so i can understand that.

00:15:01: Was sort of drinking and partying about the industry or was the industry just somewhere convenient to do?

00:15:13: I

00:15:15: think that the ladder, actually it was more of a recluse.

00:15:23: It kind just went pretty like internal for most part.

00:15:50: talked about this in so long, not even like therapy or anything.

00:15:53: But yeah I would just numb out...I was just deeply unhappy and definitely abusing my inner child by not- Even starting to write the show i'm still drinking and going out doing stuff like that And wasn't focused on performing!

00:16:19: I didn't feel like LA was a safe space to debut the show.

00:16:25: It wasn't a safe place for me to continue performing, but it felt very isolated and I couldn't trust anybody.

00:16:33: And you know what?

00:16:34: I had good times on set in Hollywood or whatever... On set whether it's a TV thing or commercial-thing or movie-thing they say if your half one good If you book something once a year, then keep going.

00:16:53: So like I would book one thing that year and be okay.

00:16:57: well i'm just gonna keep doing it but thats alot of time in between You know?

00:17:02: And think its exhausting at some point.

00:17:08: The show is a love letter to single mother yours In particular.

00:17:16: Has she heard the songs?

00:17:17: has she seen them?

00:17:19: So

00:17:21: she hasn't seen it yet.

00:17:25: It's kind of a tricky thing, you know?

00:17:28: A lot is about Herb and my relationship with her My perspective.

00:17:37: She asked if she'd heard it.

00:17:46: She started losing hearing when I was When I was like a young teen, it only progressed in the last few years.

00:17:53: So she is.

00:17:55: She's almost fully deaf but she wears hearing aids and so she doesn't... And she has huge music head and she Has-I don't think was able to have been able to hear the music that way.

00:18:11: It was main.

00:18:13: She really likes songs that she knows very well.

00:18:19: So yeah, I showed this to her at the very pretty early on in twenty-twenty three.

00:18:27: And she's supportive.

00:18:28: you know It's it's a lot.

00:18:33: It gets it gets pretty Pretty deep into our stuff and I feel like She's always been really supportive and she still is.

00:18:43: and Though we disagree sometimes Yeah on stuff.

00:18:52: But she's supportive, it is for her like when we've done this in New York now my biggest takeaway was that even the country music stuff... That was a genre that she introduced me to as a very young kid.

00:19:15: It's like growing up, I've listened to a lot of John Denver with her A lot of Arlo Guthrie... ...a lot of the Chicks and a lot Gordon Lightfoot.

00:19:31: So those are all stuff that SHE introduced ME TO.

00:19:37: She is very much in THE DNA OF THE MUSIC.

00:19:42: I was just, as you were saying that.

00:19:46: How would my mum feel if i made a show about her?

00:19:50: It's been done many times isn't it?

00:19:51: like this someone's mother the relationship between someone and their mother can be the inspiration for loads of literature load of art.

00:20:00: what does your mum make being at the heart of this?

00:20:05: What are our feelings on that?

00:20:06: She

00:20:07: sent she sent to kid to Art school so at some point maybe thought that kid is gonna make a piece of art about me or his life, so I hope she wasn't too surprised.

00:20:20: Um...I think the- Oh gosh!

00:20:28: This is tricky because it's an ongoing thing healing our relationship You know?

00:20:37: It has been pretty turbulent but We're in a good place today, and we just take it one day at a time.

00:20:46: But I know deep down that she's proud of what... What's going on?

00:20:55: Yeah.

00:20:56: I'm gonna ask you questions not really related to the show but It is about your mum.

00:21:02: What do think Your mother protected in you That The World Tried To Take?

00:21:10: If You Don't Feel Comfortable Answering That Question Just Tell Me And We Can Move On.

00:21:14: I'm

00:21:15: really interested in this.

00:21:16: that do your reactions when you were talking about making some art About your mom and your mom's reactions on the ongoing.

00:21:22: so many of us can relate to that.

00:21:23: I certainly can't.

00:21:24: So many people didn't relate to

00:21:25: them.

00:21:30: Yeah, yeah, just like something she really instilled growing up as corny As it is not give-up don't quit pursuing your dream.

00:21:48: She's always been so supportive of me and the arts, like you know my brother was a sports guy And she definitely grew up doing sports and resonated with that.

00:21:59: I think iIwas a bit of curveball wanted to sing & dance and stuff.

00:22:11: She's, she's definitely put her...she's always had an effect like.

00:22:25: Her voice has always been in my head of just keep going from very early on.

00:22:33: yeah that's tricky because LA was so.

00:22:53: LA is just so image-based and like, obsessed with youth culture.

00:23:07: That's hard for me.

00:23:08: later I think.

00:23:13: These songs... They were your private songs really weren't they?

00:23:18: For quite

00:23:18: a while.

00:23:20: Yes

00:23:21: What was it?

00:23:22: taking those things that are really private And then making them really public handing them to a director, kind of execute?

00:23:35: Yes.

00:23:36: Um... very challenging.

00:23:38: um I That was kinda.

00:23:41: that's been the hardest part It has like the hardest parts Like sharing them Letting go Of who will hear The letting go of control.

00:23:49: you know You know i want to control how people hear it and what headphones they use And i have let their go.

00:23:58: That is daily practice really since doing this show Um, but um and we've released four tracks so far in one more next week.

00:24:07: But yeah It's that's been the hardest part.

00:24:14: I really didn't start sharing the music until Until May until this last may.

00:24:21: Yeah, yeah

00:24:23: Mm-hmm.

00:24:24: Yeah So all twenty one tracks have been in the can for at least two years Except one actually, I just flew to Nashville in March.

00:24:34: And it was always part of the plan but wasn't sure when we were gonna do it.

00:24:38: But yeah all twenty-one songs have been done for a long time and It's really been therapy as... Yeah i've been gaining the confidence and courage To share it.

00:24:52: and yeah Therapy has been incredibly helpful with that.

00:24:59: And also having a great director, I went to high school with my friend and Director Coral, Coral Cohen.

00:25:06: she in twenty-twenty three or twenty two.

00:25:13: we had a meeting.

00:25:14: She was an LA.

00:25:15: We were just like hanging out.

00:25:17: it turned into a meeting.

00:25:19: It's like Coral.

00:25:19: i'm working on these songs.

00:25:21: Can you show them too?

00:25:27: Okay, well you have.

00:25:29: she's like.

00:25:29: I think you have two shows going on.

00:25:31: You have a very vulnerable one-man show and you have a cabaret style kind of gay comedy thing And i was like okay Well the One Man Show is really what I want to do.

00:25:45: She pushed me in that direction then cut too.

00:25:49: four years later It's January of twenty-twenty six and I'm like coral.

00:25:55: I just like have to do this thing.

00:25:57: That's like, I want to get it out of me And I really need eyes and I needs someone in the room.

00:26:03: so like watch me and and direct Me.

00:26:06: and so coral has been great.

00:26:09: she's been incredibly supportive and we've had a lot of Like conversations about What you just said sharing?

00:26:20: sharing the music, and it's been really... It has always felt this desire to be seen but also incredibly private.

00:26:50: talk or share like you know my secrets, but at the same time there's something else.

00:27:03: drive it.

00:27:05: But I do!

00:27:07: And there is something that has been driving a car this whole the driver's seat.

00:27:16: really, I feel like i've been in a passenger seat kind of panicking this whole time.

00:27:20: And who is driving then?

00:27:21: That's interesting.

00:27:22: that has really just stood out with me.

00:27:24: then are you going...are you trying to work there?

00:27:25: and therapy as well which-I'm not trying to say a glib about this but it's what isn't the drivers seat.

00:27:29: why am I doing

00:27:30: this?

00:27:31: The wise self we talk about..the wise self Is the one driving the car.

00:27:35: ummm....i think that Doug D my young Joey is sitting on his lap.

00:27:44: They know what to do, and I'm you know the self And i'm standing by ready too.

00:27:49: You know protect in and make sure that we like don't crash or anything.

00:27:57: but There's a lot of voices That are In The Backseat.

00:28:05: it's more Of A Bus I would Say So Many Parts On That Bus but the wise self, I'd say is driving that.

00:28:19: Yeah and it's been... It's been that way this whole time.

00:28:22: i swear its like there has been a greater force here because I think too.. I'm not on social media And recently have had to get Social Media to promote The Show.

00:28:45: think I'm very like, have a very comparative mind.

00:28:49: So i've seen other shows maybe with similar themes or stuff like that and...I'm just so grateful that I haven't been on all these years because- I don't this show woulda gotten made!

00:29:02: I'd be driven off the road?

00:29:04: How interesting you're

00:29:08: not social media.

00:29:09: That's quite unusual in present day.

00:29:15: What was the reason for that?

00:29:19: Well, I think yeah.

00:29:21: It really triggers me like.

00:29:23: it's

00:29:25: a

00:29:26: really comparative thing and its dark hellscape.

00:29:32: There is no context For what people post Like.

00:29:35: there are just pictures of them looking hot in Europe And doing their things If i were to post stuff where they look good too.

00:29:45: But it's not real, none of its' real.

00:29:50: And for the show I think that there is like you know... ...I understand that It's The Way That Things Get Promoted and i just-it's really tough because I feel Like There Is Such A Fine Line Between Representing Your Art In Like a Cheap Way Versus A Genuine Way?

00:30:15: this whole Instagram saying like a website, it is what it is.

00:30:19: It's a landing page.

00:30:20: just treat you like that.

00:30:21: the more you can move your stuff from it emotionally The more you'll be able to make rational decisions about because otherwise its noise You cant switch off.

00:30:31: Its crazy I just don't get.

00:30:36: i feel like its the epicenter of everything thats wrong with society at the moment.

00:30:45: to have that conversation then or know you weren't.

00:30:47: But I do agree, just wish it could come off but i'm addicted.

00:30:51: So first Fringe asked a couple of questions about before we finished Have you spoke with any veterans?

00:31:00: Are they warned by anything?

00:31:02: Are you excited?

00:31:03: Yeah so my best friend did this last year.

00:31:08: She helped out at a friend's solo show and she said She said that I'm definitely gonna want a vacation afterward, which i don't know.

00:31:21: I can already imagine how exhausting it is but other friends have said take a vacation flyer as much as you can and really take care of your body your instrument and just... Your voice.

00:31:42: ...your voice, stay up on your vitamins and stuff.

00:31:44: so I have all my vitamins ready to go.

00:31:47: um i want to make a shirt that says like On Vocal Rest or something because it's really vocally heavy show but also wanna promote the show and flyer talk with people.

00:32:05: But I get drained pretty easily Yeah.

00:32:09: And yeah, so I'm mostly nervous for being drained and not my most healthy self of the show but... There's only

00:32:24: some which you can do isn't there?

00:32:25: So this is a certain amount.

00:32:26: these real intense periods are just luck.

00:32:30: an adrenaline has to play their role in that.

00:32:33: so listen i think your gonna be fine.

00:32:35: it's the new version like just keep your hand on

00:32:41: the wheel as well.

00:32:44: There's a life for this show beyond August, isn't there?

00:32:47: I think from talking to you is it like a second album in you.

00:32:51: what are you wanting to do

00:32:53: after

00:32:54: French?

00:32:56: Yeah so ideally... Like i said i really want to do this with the full band.

00:33:03: I feel like there is a version of this show where, you know... ...I get to use the band.

00:33:08: You know as people and voices.

00:33:13: There's A larger scale production Of this show that i really would like To explore.

00:33:20: So hope i can do it in New York.

00:33:23: But As far as writing And stuff..There definitely some stuff Some new stuff, some new material that I really want to... That was another thing too with this show.

00:33:36: It's like..I have just get out because i wanna do the new stuff You know?

00:33:41: So there has been some new stuffs in The Works for a while.

00:33:45: Thank you so much.

00:33:45: Really appreciate the

00:33:51: chat of very lovely Joey Jennings.

00:33:57: It's been brilliant being in this city for the last few weeks.

00:34:01: I'll be sad to leave it, even though i'm currently being absolutely hosed on by other gods.

00:34:08: but I will be sad too.

00:34:09: leave Edinburgh if we've had that every year when a pop-up The weather as you can hear has not held off our favour.

00:34:16: so that is nearly it from Edinburgh.

00:34:18: thankyou everyone who gave us their time across the month Gareth Wall, Harrison Sweeney from Final Queen.

00:34:25: Rich and Julia from Science for Grown-Up And of course Joey Big.

00:34:28: shout out to M over at Act One PR who's been an absolute star.

00:34:32: made a lot this possible for us.

00:34:33: Hopefully we'll be back again next year.

00:34:35: Join

00:34:36: me on that Queer Culture Tip.

00:34:37: I've got the brilliant Borromeo musical genius Fat Butcher Who is about to go on tour with a huge.

00:34:42: I cannot believe how much you're training

00:34:44: Arts

00:34:44: Council funded show.

00:34:45: I can barely read what it says right now.

00:34:47: It's about more than the loss of our queer venues, so the plan is to turn every venue on tour into a nightclub with quiet.

00:34:55: And at one point my entire audience has advised us do poppers en masse!

00:34:58: Its wild and I'll have it being actually... So from that absolutely biblically rainy Edinburgh..

00:35:05: ..I'm jumping

00:35:05: in a band

00:35:06: and headed to an

00:35:07: equally rainy Manchester for The Last Pride Of The Year here In The UK To Manchester Pride.

00:35:11: We're wrapping up this summer there.

00:35:12: That Is It From Outcast World In Edinburgh.

00:35:14: we will see you next time.