ATTITUDE COVER STAR CARL CASHMAN: 80 PERCENT OF LIB DEMS ARE GAY!

00:00:00: Eighty percent of Liberal Democrat members are probably part of the LGBTQ community.

00:00:04: Eighty per cent?

00:00:05: Yeah, honestly come to Lib Dem Conference you'll have a great time.

00:00:10: When Faraj says jump Labour might say

00:00:13: how high.

00:00:14: And it's not true.

00:00:15: It is offering people false hope.

00:00:18: Sex.

00:00:19: Fating apps have become a breeding ground for the worst of human behaviours and culture.

00:00:25: What do you want to hold on?

00:00:27: We get together, we... Be simple.

00:00:29: Simple!

00:00:29: Be simple for me.

00:00:31: He will like go and nush himself off.

00:00:34: This is Outcast

00:00:36: World But ready-to-go again Carly?

00:00:40: are you ready to go?

00:00:41: More

00:00:41: political hard talk.

00:00:42: So um Lib Dems Um..we were just discussing then have a quick drink.

00:00:50: They're probably not going to end up in power at the next election, but they might end up on that position there being before where they hold the balance of power again.

00:01:02: Do you want that responsibility?

00:01:04: Not YOU personally!

00:01:05: But like... Well yeah I guess You and The Party.

00:01:11: I think one other thing is as i said before There was A LOT OF things during that coalition period, I was very uncomfortable with because it wasn't my type of politics.

00:01:21: But one other things that I was proud of is we stepped up at a time when needed to step-up even though it meant pretty much the annihilation of our party at that times.

00:01:34: so...I would like think so but at the same time you know i can see us aligning either those two major parties.

00:01:43: you know, I would be more comfortable in a coalition with the Labour Party probably.

00:01:51: But that being said i don't think the Labour party and government at the moment are progressive parties.

00:01:57: some of things they're doing doesn't feel progressive to me.

00:02:00: so... You've given my choice between a Conservative Party or a Conservative party or an even worse Conservative party.

00:02:10: Well,

00:02:10: there's another word for them I think.

00:02:11: when they were from

00:02:12: Estonia... Yeah!

00:02:13: I thought this might have been a bit PG so I didn't want to say it anyway.

00:02:18: So A lot of people still feel burned by twenty-tenth and you discussed some things that the Liberal Democrats got through in coalition with the Conservatives but there was austerity at the end of that.

00:02:33: tuition fees is the big one.

00:02:36: Lib Dem support collapsed one of the main reasons because it was such a tangible thing when they put in their manifesto and then turned around on that.

00:02:43: It's obviously unrealistic, but people were really upset by this.

00:02:49: Why should those voters who had their fingers burnt last time – I'm actually one of them – trust the Lib Dems wouldn't repeat these mistakes?

00:03:04: First of all, I find it interesting.

00:03:06: Obviously there's people in this room here who will have an opinion but just interested to hear what you think.

00:03:12: like.

00:03:12: why do you think the Lib Dems are held as such a higher standard than other parties?

00:03:17: Because

00:03:18: yeah because It feels To me that The Labour Party can get things wrong and People be angry with them In the moment.

00:03:26: But then further down the line its kind Like Yeah but i'm Labour aren't i. so You know Just is What it Is.

00:03:31: The Conservative Party can get things wrong.

00:03:33: Oh yeah, but deep down I'm a conservative so like you know how vote for them?

00:03:38: But we got hundred percent hand on heart.

00:03:41: We've got things wrong during that period.

00:03:43: What?

00:03:44: why is there still something that has put to us and not the Conservative party or not the Labour Party when they made

00:03:53: mistakes?".

00:03:53: I think the Conservative Party's held to account.

00:03:56: I don't

00:03:59: think it is, personally.

00:04:00: Well they were just voted out like year before last in a landslide... ...I think people still think that did wrong there but for me sometimes its the direction we went down when after that coalition government you know There are number of options on this table and ultimately ended up in Brexit And that leads to where we're now.

00:04:18: It sounds as if i'm throwing all under Lib Dems But I think when you've got something as tangible, we'll get rid of tuition fees and then don't.

00:04:25: People are always going to... That's a shopping list very simple things that haven't done And people will hold accountable for it.

00:04:31: Also the Lib Dems being empowered is quite different isn'it?

00:04:36: It just sticks in peoples memory.

00:04:38: How do move on from there?

00:04:41: There?

00:04:42: part of this is fair careerist politicians tend to have, which is they don't tell a story about where we are as a country and where we need to be in the Lib Dems.

00:04:57: We're just as guilty of that as the Labour Party are now.

00:05:01: I mean i think a lot of people's frustration with the current Labour government because there's no narrative of here's where we all.

00:05:13: here's what you know.

00:05:14: this will really bad.

00:05:18: It was, you know on us for not telling that story and there were certain things... ...that happened.

00:05:26: That I'm not comfortable with.

00:05:28: progressive people wouldn't have been comfortable with And liberals wouldn'a be comfortable with.

00:05:34: Think of always got to kind of remind people and remind myself when i get frustrated about it because.. ..I do get frustrated at the time in government.

00:05:42: I've gotta remind me self we're a minority party.

00:05:48: And the difference now, so if we add... ...the majority that Labour have now in government you would've seen good Liberal Democrat policies from Lib Dem boffins who write their most detailed manifestos and it does me head in most of time because they just spend hours an hour's in committee rooms doing that.

00:06:08: You're never gonna get a chance to do this or why bother?

00:06:11: I think politics is so volatile at the moment.

00:06:14: We were talking about You know, there was one constituency in this country where someone won with about twenty-five percent of the vote which is absolutely crazy and that could be happening around The Country.

00:06:29: And That's why I think at the moment politics Is so strained because This reform leads on all these polls that are saying they're gonna get a majority In government to three hundred odd seats in Parliament.

00:06:40: They're going To Get On A Very Small Percentage Of The Vote.

00:06:45: And that's why fundamentally, I think the voting system is the thing that needs to change.

00:06:50: It's not fit for purpose and it's not a five-party system.

00:06:55: but i always just to answer your question properly... ...I was thinking about this when I was at home.. ..and I've tried on a few doors in Liverpool.... The people have spoke too actually its resonated with.

00:07:11: Is anyone like football fan here?

00:07:17: Sorry.

00:07:20: Maybe I should use a different anecdote...

00:07:23: My dad is?

00:07:27: So basically, this could apply to hockey or any sport.

00:07:31: Oh you're

00:07:31: into ice hockey now!

00:07:36: Me too.

00:07:38: That's gone completely over my head by the way but i'm guessing on other reasons.

00:07:45: So in Liverpool, obviously goes through periods of either success or failure.

00:07:54: Football

00:07:54: club?

00:07:54: Football club yeah and any sport team can go though that.

00:08:01: And I likened that period for the Liberal Democrats to Liverpool under Roy Hodgson.

00:08:07: so we had a really bad period on a manager who wasn't pulling the strings and enthusiastic or making The City enthusiastic.

00:08:17: And I just say, you wouldn't stop watching Liverpool Football Club because their manager was really bad at that time.

00:08:24: You still support the club and think they've got to go watch them again.

00:08:28: They're playing absolutely awful But things will change and get better.

00:08:34: It's the same with political parties.

00:08:41: Kia Stam is in charge of Labour Party now, that will change.

00:08:45: In the future they're seeing with the Conservatives and others for better or worse.

00:08:51: So I always say don't judge a party an organisation A sports club by one period in history.

00:08:59: You've got to look at why the picture And the principles on what these stand on.

00:09:02: Okay...I feel like i'm convincing you like slightly.

00:09:08: Yeah yeah just think people aren't going do that Andy Burnham, if Andy Burnam was... This is what I was thinking then.

00:09:15: If Andy Burnum was leader of the Labour Party

00:09:18: would

00:09:18: you as a Liberal Democrat feel like little bit more comfortable about supporting them in a coalition?

00:09:26: I mean perhaps... Perhaps.. I think Burnham's got an air of common sense about him which i think he's missing in politics and he has gotta give em that He's fantastic communicator.

00:09:42: If I'm being... Red

00:09:45: as well, isn't

00:09:46: it?

00:09:46: No he's a blue.

00:09:47: So that goes against him.

00:09:48: the... No one got there!

00:09:52: Stun silence in the room.

00:09:55: But if iIm being heavily critical of Ben for moments He is bit an opportunist himself.

00:10:02: to be honest

00:10:03: You're not first person I've heard say that.

00:10:04: Why did you said that was because his sort of behaviour at the Labour Party conference Think just wants to say anything popular.

00:10:10: Just get himself ahead.

00:10:13: what's the reason for that?

00:10:14: I think his positions on a few things have changed and maybe aren't consistent.

00:10:21: And there's part of me, it feels bad about saying that because i am a politician or human being who thinks your opinion changes when the facts change.

00:10:30: Yeah!

00:10:31: That is really kind of toxic thing about politics that politicians... Because they've held their view like feel as if you always need to hold that view.

00:10:40: So I feel a bit bad in saying he has changed position.

00:10:43: But I think it's when you change a lot of positions in quick succession and feel like he has done that.

00:10:53: You look at the Labour Party, there are not many other people who can see as someone to succeed Keir Starmer which says an awful lot.

00:11:02: so be honest with me if you have got four hundred MPs?

00:11:05: There is no talent here.

00:11:06: It's just about how he manages this as well isn't?

00:11:10: That's kind of a very common thing amongst dictators.

00:11:15: He is a dictator,

00:11:17: yes we got him!

00:11:19: So the only thing I'd say about Keir Starman he was that typical boring middle manager isn't he?

00:11:24: The

00:11:26: job he was elected to play though like a bore...

00:11:29: A little bit but i think so..i was always told when i got involved in politics you've got people who are good at leadership is not necessarily good at management and then people are good at managements, it's not necessary to go that lead the ship.

00:11:43: And sometimes like you know some special people can be good of both.

00:11:48: I'm probably not a good at both.

00:11:49: i'm Not probably a good manager.

00:11:52: But I'd like to think that am a good leader where as I don't think Kirstam Is A Good Leader but I Think he's Probably a good Manager and coming out Of The back of You Know all That conservative rule I think you probably needed something or someone who was a good leader.

00:12:08: And to give Ben him his credit, he probably fits that mould?

00:12:11: Yeah

00:12:11: yeah...I think it does and i do think He'll be the next Prime Minister whether people like her or not.

00:12:16: really It just seems there are actually no travel.

00:12:18: If the Liberal Democrats were part of our future government Like we've said, any thing could happen couldn't they?

00:12:26: What other non-negotiables this time?

00:12:28: I feel like he didn't have any non-negotiables last time.

00:12:33: There's about two questions there.

00:12:34: So what would be the non-negotiables this time?

00:12:38: Well, I think one thing i'd like to get over is so does kind of this misconception that if we went into coalition with The Labour Party That they wouldn't have been any cuts or anything and things were being rose in?

00:12:55: it was a perfect world.

00:12:57: It just not the case.

00:13:00: And if you look at it, there's a chart.

00:13:03: Like I always try and go back to this one where I can find but then delete off my phone trying to re-find again.

00:13:09: So the chart which shows you the pledged cuts in each party is manifest though It shows that the Conservatives are right up here Labour Party like here and the Lib Dems down here The actual cut implemented as something below what the Labour Party committed.

00:13:29: So I think kinds of, when people say you just went into coalition and you didn't stop the conservatives doing anything it's just wildly inaccurate.

00:13:39: And a lot of the reforms to welfare even though there was still some that went through but again i wasn't comfortable with... There were lots got stopped as well.

00:13:54: so my non-negotiables would certainly be You know, things on LGBTQ rights.

00:14:00: Things on trans rights cut to welfare that we're seeing at the moment.

00:14:06: I think that's something there would be an unnegotiable and something that i'm quite happy that has changed And I think they should celebrate when people change their mind for the right reasons.

00:14:16: is The two-child benefit cap?

00:14:19: And...I've got a say.

00:14:21: So my..I always thinking of my dad as good barometer Of politics Um....and I say that because He's not political and he is probably like your typical voter in the sense that... ...he hears things, makes up his mind based on feelings.

00:14:38: Sometimes you can read into things And sometimes to give him his duty comes with something pretty decent.

00:14:45: But the other day they said to me They tell what?

00:14:48: That two child benefit cap?

00:14:49: I can't believe they've scrapped it.

00:14:51: You know Why do think so?

00:14:54: Just rewarding people who are having kids.

00:14:57: But if you see in the amount of money that people get after The Second Child, You wouldn't have a child for that reason.

00:15:06: And I think there's this huge... and That is not discrediting him by the way..

00:15:11: My mum said the same thing!

00:15:12: Yeah

00:15:13: it's the media narrative isn'it?

00:15:16: Partly why Kierstarman and Labour Party wouldnt pledge to that?

00:15:20: because they were following that media narrative.

00:15:25: Quite often the right-wing media controls people's thoughts in this country about like, The Welfare State?

00:15:33: About the NHS and other social issues.

00:15:37: And I think that is probably where you need someone who is a bit more gutsy or progressive to come into say This Is The Red Line!

00:15:45: We've got tell story but why will raise so many thousand children out of poverty?

00:15:52: And you've got to have them stories, their manic goats ready to push back against the?

00:15:55: oh well they're only spending it getting the nails done which is what my mom said.

00:16:02: So compared to Labour and the Conservatives and The Greens now as well I feel like they really stolen your thunder.

00:16:10: What do the Lib Dems offer?

00:16:12: that's genuinely different?

00:16:15: Are you a member of the Green Party?

00:16:17: No!

00:16:18: You've mentioned that four

00:16:20: or five times.

00:16:21: The Green Party is currently Poland, it's the most popular party in London and it's for under thirty-fives I think in some of the latest Poland.

00:16:28: so... ...you'd be mad not to take the Greens into account really And it just kind of muddies the waters doesn't it?

00:16:33: because they're a party where people don't have too many negative opinions on.

00:16:36: that sits somewhere.

00:16:38: That's not red.

00:16:41: Yeah, what are the differences between The Lib Dems and those other parties?

00:16:45: I mean we know there's a different difference when it comes to reform.

00:16:49: So...I like thinking myself as... ...I don't really like to think of politics in terms left or right but i'd like.

00:16:59: you're either conservative or progressive.

00:17:02: There is scale over that And I'm certainly on that progressive side Like society gets better if you make progress But I also think you need to be tempered in that progress.

00:17:14: You're not gonna take people on a journey with ya if, say... ...you have to upheave the social system and society within a matter of months.

00:17:24: And i think.. That's what you get from left wing populist parties.

00:17:28: They wanna move

00:17:29: too fast!

00:17:29: It

00:17:29: is all hundred percent right?

00:17:31: Its just it isn't doable In this whole wealth tax.

00:17:37: its very easy.

00:17:39: The reason I think the Greens have done quite well recently is because it's easy to say, and a lot of people feel very hurt by how society feels at this moment.

00:17:53: Now there are lots more people with wealth that are not to blame.

00:17:58: There're small percentage of people who are to blame and have basically monopolised certain parts of society.

00:18:05: That needs to be tackled.

00:18:07: one hundred percent.

00:18:08: but this wealth tax idea, so talking about a tax on assets like you've got to understand the financial implication of that because a lot of these assets aren't tangible.

00:18:20: Like how do you tax something?

00:18:21: That isn't tangible it is an income.

00:18:24: So if someone's got a property that's worth so many million pounds and they say right... ...that increased like fifty thousand This year you always are saving amount money like if that's, you know Mrs.

00:18:35: Miggins from Down the Road who's inherited that house she hasn't got like five thousand pounds in the bank to pay there.

00:18:43: so it does have

00:18:43: a two million pound house?

00:18:44: She has.

00:18:45: but I do expect her to sell that house or to remortgage that house.

00:18:49: So It's very nice to say its not implementable and practice.

00:18:55: And i think thats what The Lib Dems offer.

00:18:58: That the Greens don't is practical policies be implemented and I say that there's so.

00:19:06: when the Greens were coming out with this, eye kinds of...I'll wrap my brains thinking well i do think people who have gamed society should pay their fair share.

00:19:18: And how could you practically do that?

00:19:22: There are some Lib Dem policies that practically do it.

00:19:24: So attacks on private jet flights.

00:19:28: a lot of us in this room yourself or myself I couldn't imagine a lifestyle where you could afford to go on a private jet and those private jets aren't taxed accordingly, particularly according the type of pollution that they put into their world as well.

00:19:43: A sewage tax on water companies not water companies that are dumping sewage in the rivers.

00:19:50: but water companies have been privatised.

00:19:52: When did

00:19:53: he just nationalise them?

00:19:55: Personally would nationalise him!

00:19:57: And i was saying this before... The older I got, the more conservative.

00:20:02: I would get... I'm finding that the older they're getting and the more we'd left Wingham to be perfectly honest Don't tell

00:20:08: her Davey

00:20:09: though!

00:20:10: So as i've gotten old and looked at like society.. ..I have something else to say on this.

00:20:20: actually That's quite relevant But when I look at society I thought Capitalism isn't inherently a bad thing but unfettered capitalism certainly is a bad thing.

00:20:34: and what has happened, we haven't created the free market.

00:20:37: We've created it for all.

00:20:39: where people can literally monopolize institutions like water or gas like electric there's no competition.

00:20:46: The whole idea of the free markets I'm getting really philosophical now.

00:20:51: But the whole idea to capitalism Is to promote competition choice in what they purchase.

00:21:00: and that's not whats happening society at the moment.

00:21:03: The really interesting part of that is I was speaking to a conservative, all people either forgive me for my sins but these said this whole idea of massively pro-capitalism or all costs on neoliberalism.

00:21:19: it isn't conservatism.

00:21:22: so there are alot of peoples who have seen what Thatcher did And even play to an extent and say that isn't like what this society or conservativeism was about.

00:21:33: Actually, three for all is.

00:21:36: I think it's the start of what we're experiencing now.

00:21:41: People essentially paying ridiculous gas and electric bills on going.

00:21:45: This doesn't seem right this.

00:21:46: There absolutely nothing government can do except subsidize the gas and electric companies.

00:21:52: It's not

00:21:52: very competitive, is it?

00:21:53: You can't drill under your house to the next county in terms of water kind.

00:21:57: I've tried.

00:21:59: Immigration levels they are lower than there being for years.

00:22:02: isn't immigration half been last few years...it was at its highest under the Conservatives just in twenty-twenty three.

00:22:07: yet all a rhetoric feels more hostile then ever.

00:22:11: what would you do differently about that?

00:22:12: on practical terms because There's something big in people's minds.

00:22:16: The general public thinks immigration as biggest issue but the stats suggest that it's not.

00:22:22: So, what would you do about that?

00:22:25: Because you've got a communications issue there more than like I don't know a logistical one haven't ya?

00:22:31: No definitely and i think its really hard to have a liberal argument on immigration at the moment because it has become so polarised to the point where... And this is generally an issue in politics right now.

00:22:44: You just can't have a nuanced position or anything Because as soon you go, well actually that's not the whole story.

00:22:49: They're going.

00:22:50: what are you saying?

00:22:51: immigration is okay?

00:22:52: It just... You can't sit down anymore and actually go through like the intricacies of what has gone on in society.

00:23:00: What's

00:23:00: driving them?

00:23:02: I think social media a big part of it.

00:23:05: People's attention spans so short The

00:23:07: algorithm rewards them for

00:23:09: sure And the algorithm might have worked for me.

00:23:13: so I can't completely, you know... At least he knows!

00:23:15: ...disgrace the algorithm.

00:23:16: It's

00:23:17: an honest answer?

00:23:18: But it is completely true You know.

00:23:22: So i think this has worked in both ways.

00:23:25: its really damaged people.

00:23:27: because if you were have you ever heard of the term cosmic scouser?

00:23:35: It

00:23:36: doesn't apply to me or you.

00:23:37: No,

00:23:37: no it definitely does.

00:23:38: neither

00:23:39: of us are on LSD

00:23:41: But a cosmic scouser is literally that its people who kind they're just bit wild like love magic mushrooms Like do think there's aliens put us online the earth and things like that.

00:23:51: now those People in The past would have Just been completely ridiculed And gone like what Are You talking about Dave?

00:23:57: Like shut up like go and Have your pinton and sit down.

00:24:00: but Now those people find the community online who also believe that aliens put us on earth.

00:24:06: I don't know why i'm talking about this by the way.

00:24:07: No, no

00:24:08: it makes sense because thats rewarded by algorithm

00:24:10: yeah and so Those People like where is in the past you would have gone.

00:24:15: That's a load of nonsense.

00:24:16: now It's Rewarded With You Know A Community Of People Who Go.

00:24:20: I think your right And I Think Thats Led To The Rise Of Populism Its Led to Trump its led to Farage and...you know..its quite scary you know, lead us to other really desperate situations as well.

00:24:44: in foreign policy terms?

00:24:51: I think

00:25:09: one, it's in standing up to people like Trump and people who just go around saying things about that community willy-nilly as if not damaging the community.

00:25:21: And i know there are a lot of people in our community that have quite frightened America for their reason.

00:25:27: so making sure progressive minded people stand up against big bully leaders like Trump who are just, you know, petulant children essentially.

00:25:40: And also calling out atrocities against that community in different communities.

00:25:48: and it might surprise as a Lib Dem to hear me talk about Brexit and talking with the European Union but keeping those international institutions that are based on shared ideology and shared values together because I think it only benefits, like those who were ignorant.

00:26:09: It only benefits the likes of Trump and those who would disparage the LGBTQ community to break those institutions up.

00:26:19: so i think working with our allies across the European Union a massively important thing now more than ever because there are people who are making movements against that community.

00:26:33: There's a broadening out of it, we've just seen today Trump in Davos and People really not being sure how to deal with them ridiculing Manuel Macron for his sunglasses And all that kind of things.

00:26:45: How would the Lib Dems Deal With Trump?

00:26:49: If the Lib Dems were in power if you're In a position to dictate their direction on that.

00:26:53: how Would You as A Liberal Democrat Deal With Donald Trump?

00:26:56: because I don't think Keir Starmer's approach has particularly worked, does

00:27:02: it?

00:27:03: There is part of me that wants to say get all the LGBTQ community together and go and invade Greenland ourselves.

00:27:11: Occupy Greenlands before Donald Trump can.

00:27:15: but being serious if it was me in Keir starmers position I think what Davey's done at the moment in standing up to Trump is really brave and, you know... The right move.

00:27:27: And..I always go back to- I was saying this on Channel Five today- I always go Back To Love.

00:27:33: Actually When Hugh Grant Stands Up To Billy Bob Thornton You know what he says?

00:27:37: Like we're not gonna take This Anymore!

00:27:39: I just Think We Need A Little Bit Of That.

00:27:42: I Just Think We need a little bit of someone who Is Not Prepared To Take Shit Basically From America to keep a special relationship going.

00:27:53: It's important to have a relationship with the United States of America, but we have that relationship person-to-person like.

00:28:02: so they're the British people and the American people not because of any Prime Minister or any president.

00:28:08: So I think if a President is overstepping what that relationship means then by all means he should be called out And We need People in government that are willing to do.

00:28:19: And unfortunately, that isn't Kia Stama.

00:28:23: I mean i couldn't really imagine him in a room with Donald Trump putting his foot down and saying no donald Lee this is it's just completely out of order um...I think he'd probably lie down and get his belly tickled.

00:28:36: um but.. I would love to see that!

00:28:39: That's a bad image isn'it?

00:28:42: But yeah I just sincerely think we need someone who got a little bit of guts about them.

00:28:48: There's one more question for you, why should queer people who feel politically disillusioned which is most of them?

00:28:55: Why should they take a chance on you and the Liberal Democrats?

00:28:58: yeah I think there's kind of a non-political answer to this.

00:29:03: then there's a political answer to that so i'm not going say it because I've put that in my Instagram comments already.

00:29:13: In terms of the actual political answer to it, and genuinely believe this in me heart... So, eighty percent of Liberal Democrat members are probably part of the LGBTQ community.

00:29:31: Eighty

00:29:31: percent?

00:29:32: Yeah honestly come-to-Lib Dem conference you'll have a great time!

00:29:37: Honestly.

00:29:37: They

00:29:37: say that about Republican conventions as

00:29:39: well, don't they?

00:29:41: Well there's quite a few in the Tories actually but not as many as the Lib Dems.

00:29:46: I think it is that kind of like liberalism to me and i touched on this earlier Liberalism to be able to be unashamedly yourself And Not being judged.

00:30:00: for As long as you're not impacting on someone else's life, You should be able to live exactly the life that you want and they lived.

00:30:08: Dems.

00:30:09: try To put policies in place.

00:30:11: That make that happen And allow people to live that sort of life.

00:30:16: I think In places where we are in control Of certain councils or we've got certain MPs This reform nonsense have taken down The Pride flag That has been massively pushed back.

00:30:31: So I would implore people to research, like Lib Dem councils that have pushed back on there and they've had a common sense view about standing up for the community.

00:30:41: One of things i'm really proud as mentioned before is equal marriage implemented when we were in government but also a constant commitment To those values Of freedom Openness Transparency And living life you and feel like you want to live.

00:31:00: And that, for me is liberalism personified.

00:31:05: Thankyou very much For making the time To come speak with us The very lovely Carl

00:31:18: Cashwin.