Gay MAFS Star "I Was Drunk For Most Of The Show – And The Format Is Dangerous!"

00:00:00: This week, the man who used to run Channel Four and went on to chair The Regulator Offcom in the UK said he would never have made the reality show married at first sight.

00:00:08: He wouldn't touch the format

00:00:09: with a barge pole.

00:00:10: I feel broken Disrespected Lonely Publicly known that it all is not well I was a drug addict and an alcoholic So very high Very drunk Very old of those things Because one thing

00:00:25: I'm f***ing not Is a liar.

00:00:27: My guest today went on it and he's been sober for a while now.

00:00:31: He's about to tell you from the inside whether The Man Who Ran Channel Four,

00:00:36: Offcom,

00:00:37: the BBC & ITV is right about this show.

00:00:40: This Is Outcast World Sex.

00:00:51: Fating apps have become a breeding ground for the worst of human behaviors.

00:00:57: And culture.

00:00:58: What do you want to hold me?

00:00:59: We get together with a

00:01:01: simple... Simple!

00:01:03: A simple from you.

00:01:03: He will, like, go

00:01:04: nudge himself

00:01:05: off.

00:01:06: This is Outcast

00:01:08: World.

00:01:11: So the context, because this show that we're about to discuss is not just weathering some allegations.

00:01:16: it's literally on trial in media at the moment.

00:01:19: A BBC panorama investigation last month set out allegations from former contributors That two people were raped by on-screen partners during filming of The Show and a third was subjected to non consensual sex act.

00:01:32: Some report has said after Channel Four informed they broadcast episodes anyway The people involved deny the allegations and police have asked anyone who is affected to come forward.

00:01:42: Channel Four has now eventually pulled every single episode, a major sponsor has walked away and the regulator is reviewing the broadcaster's own welfare report.

00:01:52: Now my guest today is neither an accuser nor one of the accused.

00:01:56: Thomas Hartley went on the twenty-twenty two series And what it gives us Is the rarest thing in this whole story?

00:02:02: The view from inside the format.

00:02:05: And it doesn't run the way you might expect from one of its most outrageous contestants.

00:02:11: What do we mean by drug addict?

00:02:13: I mean, are we talking that they're broad spectrum of stuff or will be just like... Well!

00:02:17: You weren't bothered at all because there's a spectrum isn't it?

00:02:20: A lot people

00:02:21: would do this.

00:02:22: They use their alcoholic drinking every day and using everyday.

00:02:28: yeah Okay

00:02:29: so you were in a good

00:02:30: place.

00:02:30: It was ten years that

00:02:31: ten years ago.

00:02:32: Oh wow So how did you end up in that place?

00:02:37: That doesn't happen overnight, does it.

00:02:39: Getting into the sort of position

00:02:41: I think.

00:02:41: obviously as you know being at LGBTQIA focused podcast is very toxic and there's a lot of trauma around being queer you know, life and I think it was just an easy route to sort of not deal with emotions.

00:02:59: And no deal with the confront things that went live in a... You know do i want to deal?

00:03:04: Would they all kind of take this and that'll stop them feelings but It doesn't stop them does it?

00:03:08: Just masks then temporarily.

00:03:11: yeah That's where there were.

00:03:12: I use my therapy is my thing.

00:03:16: So um..you used to be mental health nurse didn't ya?

00:03:19: ?

00:03:19: Yeah

00:03:21: Isn't that interesting, the path you've been on?

00:03:23: Because probably... You're more than aware of what was going on.

00:03:29: This isn't right and I understand why but still numb in pain i guess.

00:03:34: Well think to convince yourself.

00:03:37: it's okay for YOU because you are not in the same position as people who have psychotic episodes.

00:03:43: But then I was having psychotic episode.

00:03:45: Oh no, it's fine.

00:03:47: It'll pass because I'm functioning and still functioning And i am still working Still doing all the things that need to be given together with life.

00:03:55: But...I wasn't really.

00:04:08: I've got to fucking change.

00:04:36: a bit of a novelty, a little laugh and a joke.

00:04:48: And it was just yeah I think you've got to hit rock bottom to find the way up... ...and i had to also just hit rock-boss them really.

00:04:57: Yeah but is there moment then where were like?

00:04:59: that's

00:05:01: it?

00:05:01: Just the threat of losing family.. ..losing their life than I sort have had in having no money or being not able functioned Really!

00:05:12: It took just as combination because it got worse and worse.

00:05:15: I faced, I was still thriving in a sense whilst using so as convinced myself that i was going to be alright and it wasn't because of getting wasted.

00:05:25: It just took over my life.

00:05:28: yeah

00:05:29: You're close to your mum aren't you?

00:05:30: Yeah...I don't know if I see your mom on socials as much as she did.

00:05:33: She's

00:05:33: literally sat next to me right now.

00:05:36: She's sat here like this year

00:05:42: Oh lover.

00:05:44: So there were sobriety.

00:05:46: you got on that journey, there's a weight loss journey as well.

00:05:49: It was the magic potion battle

00:05:52: at last!

00:05:52: I've got few friends about their magic potions.

00:05:54: Tell me what?

00:05:55: You're

00:05:56: looking really good for it though.

00:05:57: Thank-you so much.

00:05:58: Well

00:05:59: its' good to see your look and well.

00:06:02: So For people who only know you is the one Who had a drink And said whatever.

00:06:09: What's the version of Thomas That they'd be surprised To Know?

00:06:13: What would They Be Surprised To Know About You?

00:06:16: I'm a home-beard, i am family person.

00:06:19: I am good friend and kind to everyone!

00:06:22: I love people...I perform.. I speak up for what I believe in.... I am true through and thru Sculptor.

00:06:30: that's when I am.

00:06:31: yeah I agree with all of the above.

00:06:35: ummm

00:06:35: haven't seen it at all.

00:06:36: you're a good person like I tell you.

00:06:38: we are not on a good place.

00:06:38: sometimes its nice see about.

00:06:40: well I appreciate

00:06:43: that I loved it, you've took your mum on.

00:06:45: It's not a holiday to work in holiday but that is the sweet spot isn't it when you can take your mom for Cyprus?

00:06:49: The thing is they

00:06:52: have come out and see me while i'm here.

00:06:55: so also watch me perform and have a little bit of a holiday.

00:06:58: our lives are chaotic.

00:07:00: we only got very small family just like a break for them as well.

00:07:04: You were

00:07:04: mental health nurse which means you understood distress

00:07:08: better than

00:07:09: anyone else.

00:07:10: probably Did that training you had as a professional in mental health, did it survive contact with the TV show or went out of the window when cameras started rolling?

00:07:28: Truth be told I was drunk for most of that shout.

00:07:30: So really not in work mode but very much.

00:07:35: I went into the show, obviously had my confrontations with people which did isolate me to an extent and i think that like off camera.

00:07:42: I didn't have a great deal of interaction With The rest Of The cast.

00:07:46: there was certain People.

00:07:47: Then I add interactions way but it wasn't really.

00:07:49: I spent A lot of time on My Own And Which Through Choice Just Because I found It To Be Quite A toxic Environment Nice and I Think I sort of Was Fearful of Being You know, how it was going to be perceived by the public and all of those things.

00:08:03: And you do become conscious for that?

00:08:05: For me because of why I am... ...I would struggle to sort of navigate the film.. ..and remember there were even cameras there!

00:08:12: That's just really being myself in defence mode.

00:08:16: Yeah yeah

00:08:17: so its like- I don't know.

00:08:18: is this a state of siege or the time when we start?

00:08:22: It IS really because

00:08:23: you're ready to go at any time Ready to fight, ready to argue We ALL wear.

00:08:30: So there's I'd call it a serious reckoning happening right now about duty of care on that program and Without speaking for anyone else's experience.

00:08:40: I want to know whether inside The support that was around you do think it matched the risk psychologically, but the program inherently hasn't.

00:08:53: What I will say is that from my experience, production and welfare was sensational.

00:08:59: They were there immediately when i needed them.

00:09:02: they were kind ,they offered me alternatives to alcohol .They offered support with the psychiatrists, psychologists... They asked if it didn't want be here anymore.

00:09:10: There's absolutely zero pressure put on by the show or team And what we've got to remember are shows like Love Island where people have actually taken their lives.

00:09:22: And so for this to be like the reckoning of that show, I think we need to re-evaluate his personal experiences.

00:09:30: There's a lot of victim blaming going on which is not fair and there are lots of points in their fingers.

00:09:34: What do you want us to do?

00:09:35: Go back to the drawing board speak with those victims then use your experience to ensure it doesn't happen again in reality TV.

00:09:42: full stop.

00:09:43: Did you drink and get worse after being on the show?

00:09:47: Oh my god, it was like champagne lifestyle.

00:09:49: You know without sounding again egotistical in any way but I came off that show as the most famous person from that show.

00:09:55: i do feel Like you would agree.

00:09:56: there were taglines and viral moments That i give them.

00:10:00: um...that made me a source of star.

00:10:02: And if feature ego It makes you think you now im untouchable.

00:10:06: So you know, being asked to these events and this that and the other.

00:10:09: And your tearing up when you drink too hard content?

00:10:11: You're a good time gal!

00:10:14: The drinking did get a lot worse...

00:10:15: I want to be fair with everyone here because what you've just described Thomas is not the same thing as allot of the reportant has describes.

00:10:23: Other contributors have said there was alcohol freely available about welfare.

00:10:27: they didn't catch them When They Fell.

00:10:29: Your telling me something completely different both sides of these things on the record at the same time because that is in contradiction with what we've heard elsewhere.

00:10:39: So I was aware of peers, it had said certain things and there were you know rumors going round from people who are on my series... There's conversations that happened.. People talking about how they would go through a tough time.

00:11:00: for me personally, it was just we were in Covid.

00:11:05: People were isolated.

00:11:06: everyone was a bit chaotic.

00:11:07: there's lot of drink involved that we absolutely supplied ourselves and not supplied by the show.

00:11:13: I'd like to say that as well because... I read somewhere

00:11:17: else that there is lots of alcohol provided but you're saying your case isn't

00:11:22: there?

00:11:22: That

00:11:23: is absolutely not true.

00:11:25: And to speak too well fair for me, within a five minute window they were at my door if I needed them at any time... ...I'm NOT going to diss them!

00:11:33: The producers everything could be incredible with made of a kind to me and provided me with alcohol free alternatives because they knew that i'd said.. ..i don't really want to drink or struggle in here.

00:11:45: sometimes I was too pissed to film.

00:11:47: They wouldn't put on camera.

00:11:49: If it's the case.

00:11:49: then they offered support.

00:11:53: They asked me if I wanted to leave.

00:11:55: There was no sort of mongering with this drunken mess on TV, they didn't do that.

00:12:03: and i'm not...I can't blame them!

00:12:05: They were incredibly supportive for me.

00:12:07: And what from one scene where other people had conversations with them?

00:12:16: finger pointing where welfare is concerned or you know blaming them people?

00:12:21: it's completely unfair in my experience.

00:12:24: So where's the problem with the program then?

00:12:26: You've said that I'd been through a Channel Four reality thing, you do a couple of zooms at The Psychologist and they're another one.

00:12:35: My own experience...I never went on it in the end but i felt like looking back..i'm not going to say lied too!

00:12:43: But there was just for me going though that Very much manipulated.

00:12:59: I think that there's a job, isn't it for people to do and the job is to cast you on me?

00:13:08: A show.

00:13:08: thats fantastic!

00:13:09: And i think we also have to sort of take our step back and go... ...I'm an adult here who's consenting to put my whole life on TV And I think that when i went through the process of being cast, I was cast very quickly from basically a phone call really.

00:13:27: Because given them what they wanted and people are naturally made for TV They're actually made to be reality stars or whatever situation it is.

00:13:37: Scouts in general are funny, they're willing to get involved.

00:13:44: The timing was, I seen the show as a safety for me trying to take time away from life where i was taking drugs and drinking.

00:13:54: And it didn't actually make it worse.

00:13:56: but that's not down to anyone but ME!

00:13:59: You know?

00:13:59: I went to the shop...I bought the wine.. I drank the wine.... I'm an adult and think we have to... We can't just be blaming, we can't blame everyone else.

00:14:11: You do consent to these things you can send to being on the show.

00:14:14: I think where there needs to be stuff that's looked at is for these victims who are going through what they've gone through.

00:14:23: i think it needs more support from them but i cant speak of this experience.

00:14:26: Was

00:14:27: their a focus by the shows producers and production team?

00:14:32: This is quotes I've read from people that there's a real focus on, are they having sex?

00:14:38: There was a real focused on an unnatural focus of whether or not people taking part in the show were having sex and some people felt pressurised.

00:14:46: You know you're sticking with people who have not met each other before... ...in their domestic environment.

00:14:49: going off you go.

00:14:50: And for me it seems fraught with risk to be

00:14:54: I mean its fraught wit brisk isn't?

00:14:56: i think we can all attest to that.

00:14:59: For me..I didn't share better at my partner so I cant contest to that at all and they were very aware, there was absolutely no romantic connection.

00:15:09: I think for him you know we really wanted it on the show but he wanted something really fruitful to come from it...and thats fine!

00:15:18: We have different reasons for going on....but for me i didn't feel pressure regarding sex or anything like I didn't.

00:15:27: For others that may be data experience but for me, i don't recall at any point being asked about sex or anything like that other than once by the experts which again is their job to explore the relationship.

00:15:39: and part of a relationship is you know...

00:15:42: Consensual sex if we're allowed to say then right?

00:15:43: Yeah yeah.

00:15:44: Consensical sex absolutely yes okay!

00:15:46: And listening to the people who have spoken with data experience.

00:15:52: it's really really troubling.

00:15:55: They didn't feel that they had that support or about at the time, they could go and speak to someone.

00:16:01: Or whatever the case might be I don't think again That it should be time stamped where we're like.

00:16:05: well you should have said it there And then no You shouldn't just say when you feel comfortable saying yeah

00:16:09: Yeah, and you don't know when your gonna fail of things are going to fail do ya?

00:16:12: Especially if

00:16:14: you're drunk.

00:16:14: No absolutely James And sometimes there's not a realisation.

00:16:18: There is no realisation in the moment that happens to you.

00:16:21: I think it important we just listen to victims and don't comment, pass remark or be cruel on people who have been through this.

00:16:29: Completely completely.

00:16:30: Do You Think There Is Changes Need To Be Made To Shows Like This?

00:16:38: Would You Go On One Again?

00:16:41: Okay, I think the changes need to be that we're sitting down and having serious conversations with people.

00:16:46: And so that we are not putting them in situations where there's risk posed like that?

00:16:52: I don't think they put on people living in apartments together thing works...I think it is dangerous

00:16:59: Interesting.

00:17:00: I really do, and

00:17:01: the proof is important for that because it's dangerous And i think you also will put on true people who may not even want to be in The same environment together at a create hostility.

00:17:09: Not only does it pose that risk but it creates Hostility.

00:17:12: so what needs To happen?

00:17:13: Is we need People Who've experienced this to come In On an advisory Basis So That We can Change the process so that We Can Allow the People who have actually Experienced It to Have Impulse into How to Run?

00:17:25: I think that's what needs it.

00:17:27: Would i go on a show again?

00:17:29: I would do A Show Again because ima different person today than I was then.

00:17:46: I love the show, and I've reviewed it.

00:18:05: I loved this show specifically The Australian one.

00:18:08: i think its sensational TV.

00:18:10: However what needs to happen is that we do really need look at all of these reality shows again.

00:18:18: We need some time where they're not on tv To ensure the safety for people who are contributing to it

00:18:29: Totally.

00:18:30: I think that's right Paramount here, i think it really is

00:18:33: Thomas aka Pam Sandwich from a very warm Cyprus this morning and thank you for that!

00:18:40: Really appreciate that chat.

00:18:43: And don't forget before you turn the record off then I am the host of Liverpool Pride on the twenty-fourth and twenty fifth of July.

00:18:51: so

00:18:53: I didn't know

00:18:53: this.

00:18:54: Well, you should've been your BTA to my little chugging yet!

00:18:58: Yeah it's back in the arena with the sugar babes.

00:19:02: Oh its big

00:19:02: again

00:19:02: because last time i checked and then stopped.

00:19:04: so

00:19:04: its comeback.

00:19:05: Its comeback proper & Big.

00:19:07: yeah It has come back & it is in hands of the community In the hands of The Hear House, The Oldest LGBTQIA Charity in the country.

00:19:15: And they just think that it was just fab In the city not for countries.

00:19:18: sorry im making false.

00:19:20: They do some incredible stuff as well.

00:19:22: It's a hair house A lot of work for HIV and all that over the years.

00:19:25: So I've got alot of respect

00:19:26: for them.

00:19:26: Alright, we'll

00:19:27: good luck with that.

00:19:30: If i can be there...I will be.

00:19:31: I haven't been to Liverpool Pride For about ten years Thomas.

00:19:34: You

00:19:34: should Be There because you're a scout Seth!

00:19:36: You Should Be There love.

00:19:38: And now showing me face I know.. I felt devastated last

00:19:41: year when it was cancelled But then lost

00:19:43: from.

00:19:43: bring it home Bring it Home

00:19:44: get on my train

00:19:45: Alright thank-you I appreciate your time.

00:19:49: I appreciate yours as well.

00:19:50: Thank you so much, take care!