Making a baby with friends… Turned Into A Musical

00:00:00: Hi, welcome to the show.

00:00:01: I'm just finishing up editing today's interview and finished it now And i've got a list of things that can put in the coming-up sequence on todays episode.

00:00:11: On Today's Episode

00:00:13: Say you have big dog.

00:00:14: if u wanna buy syringe

00:00:16: How do you get a syringe?

00:00:17: Just go to boots and tell me about your big dog.

00:00:19: If he medicine too they'll give you one

00:00:21: Spam as resource.

00:00:23: By resource I mean... Spam.

00:00:27: Berm is a resource often given out for nothing.

00:00:32: I've been

00:00:32: off

00:00:32: loads.

00:00:35: If you're going to a fertility clinic, what drives your choice of jizz?

00:00:39: It's tricky when people...I think When You're on like the Argos of as my partner has described it which Is that the sperm banks online.

00:00:48: right queer politics Labour might say, how high?

00:00:54: And it's not true.

00:00:55: It is offering

00:00:55: people false

00:00:56: hope.

00:00:58: Sex.

00:00:58: Vating apps have become a breeding ground for the worst of human behaviours.

00:01:04: In culture... When you go home we get together to re-fuck.

00:01:08: Be simple.

00:01:08: Simple!

00:01:09: Be simple

00:01:10: from here on out.

00:01:10: He will like go and nush himself off.

00:01:14: This Is Outcast World.

00:01:19: I'm in Cardiff at my house with my little cat which was very nice saying hello

00:01:24: Gorgeous.

00:01:24: We love people with cats on this show.

00:01:26: Tofa's normally on, he has always got the cat handy... You could

00:01:29: just say Lesbians, Graeme or someone who is much of a mess really isn't

00:01:34: it?

00:01:34: Tofa qualifies I think as an honorary lesbian but his not!

00:01:40: I'm a dog person.

00:01:41: no i don't mean that wear them masks..I am more like a dog myself.

00:01:43: Really you are a dog

00:01:45: present.

00:01:45: That would make sense and see for yourself.

00:01:48: actually Do I look

00:01:49: like a

00:01:50: dogs person?

00:01:51: Yeah, I think so.

00:01:52: I think anyone who's got any sort of facial hair is a dog person...I don't know why.

00:01:55: Dog person?

00:01:57: Yeah, dog-person!

00:01:58: Like i dunno why.

00:01:59: that's the rule.

00:02:00: That's The Rule.

00:02:01: Um So I used to make cat person and he used to have a cat but she was um Machiavellian bit of a cunt on the sly.

00:02:08: I'm sure yours lovely.

00:02:10: This

00:02:10: one's Horrid.

00:02:11: this Is the other One.

00:02:12: Her name is Joan, Joan Rivers.

00:02:15: She's horrid But we love her.

00:02:19: I think Joan Rivers would really appreciate that.

00:02:21: I

00:02:21: love Joan Rivers, why do you call her Joan Rivers?

00:02:24: because she's a bit of a cow?

00:02:26: Or is it funny or what?

00:02:27: She's

00:02:27: just a bit for Cow but we love her!

00:02:28: Right

00:02:29: okay yeah God bless Joan Rivers.

00:02:33: God bless, may she rest... I loved Joan Rivers and this cat's vibe.

00:02:38: really.

00:02:40: We found out later on that she was a boy But i don't think that matters.

00:02:43: It doesn't

00:02:43: matter.

00:02:45: That's fine.

00:02:46: When you have a cat,

00:02:47: what is the difference between female and male cats?

00:02:50: I think they all just act like kind of cat-like don't they?

00:02:53: I thinks so yeah she's massive.

00:02:55: it's what i will say.

00:02:56: She's massive but i liked that it intimidates people.

00:02:58: You know another cat from rivers running around the streets of

00:03:03: Cardiff.

00:03:05: So you've got some really interesting stuff going on.

00:03:07: I'll talk a little bit about your background as well.

00:03:10: in comedy writing, it's a really interesting career path and everything we've heard.

00:03:14: the intro before but You were told that you are likely infertile at twenty four And your response was essentially Okay, well we will try and do it ourselves in a flat with the mate's sperm.

00:03:29: More than anything else It was a hobby to spend time with friends really!

00:03:35: It started off being about yeah I guess you think its political?

00:03:39: When your told something like that especially so young because quite jarring makes me rethink everything.

00:03:47: i think our initial instinct when my wife decided she wanted to have baby go down like the most traditional method and try to do this thing called, it's called shared motherhood which is a stupid name for anyway because you're two months on your own baby.

00:04:00: It's all shared mother hood but what they do is take the eggs out of one of them mix with some sperm just like that make in meringue then put the result into another partner right?

00:04:13: That whole vibe hopefully becomes a baby.

00:04:20: So my partner could carry my dried up material, you know?

00:04:23: And as we got told this isn't possible.

00:04:26: You've gotta do this!

00:04:27: Suddenly became like why are we trying to fit into a box here?

00:04:31: that we don't fit in?

00:04:33: it doesn't really... It just doesn't make sense.

00:04:36: I think it's square peg round hole To not use the euphemism maybe.

00:04:47: And we decided to, yeah take the reins and get on with it ourselves really.

00:04:53: So that was good!

00:04:54: Yeah

00:04:56: so my sister-in-law she's done exactly this with her partner... ...and when I first heard about it i was like you're taking....so

00:05:08: who

00:05:08: is everyone's baby?

00:05:10: Like what a unique way to be able kind of be like..to both have a stake in babies.

00:05:15: life um.

00:05:16: um.

00:05:18: walk me through what the clinic said to you and why you went down the DIY route.

00:05:25: then please explain what the DIY root is because I think i know what it sounds like.

00:05:30: It sounds like them all?

00:05:31: I don't know, I think I'm up for the DIY Root tell.

00:05:36: I say first things first, that sounds amazing.

00:05:38: Love your sister's done the same.

00:05:39: That so cool!

00:05:40: This is becoming a bit of an evolution.

00:05:43: I would tell you...I love her situation.

00:05:46: For us it wouldn't be like all our baby.

00:05:48: It was very much me and my partner's baby Her parents legally everything.

00:05:53: We are on the birth certificate.

00:05:54: Our lovely friend and his boyfriend Are dear dear friends of ours And uncles to her Very close.

00:06:02: definitely Its sort of new relationship.

00:06:04: It's all about cookie-cutters and trying to fit everything into a cookie cutter moulds when you're not cookies, then your fruit cakes.

00:06:13: It

00:06:13: takes loads of people to bring up the kid doesn't it as well?

00:06:15: I mean this kind of feeds in to that doesnt'it A village?

00:06:18: what they say

00:06:18: innit?

00:06:18: Absolutely yeah we've got an amazing village.

00:06:21: So there is that.

00:06:22: so i would say... What actually did.. its really interesting And I encourage so many like anyone who was in this community Who doesn't want kids themselves but has the resource To help someone else do it like.

00:06:34: that's something they would want to do.

00:06:35: I'd absolutely encourage people.

00:06:38: think about it, my cat is trying to attack me!

00:06:40: I'm just going throw this over the sofa ready?

00:06:43: Off you go get lost.

00:06:44: thank you.

00:06:45: um so yes i think for us it became some thing of a...um don't know was really less community thing and we asked our friends almost in jests to start off with.

00:07:00: he said no.

00:07:01: then his boyfriend Okay, great.

00:07:05: You have fantastic hair so that really works well for us and he's a very lovely person.

00:07:11: So what happened?

00:07:12: For us is as the show I'm doing at moment.

00:07:14: um i've written all about it.

00:07:16: It's called relay.

00:07:17: And this call relay because What would happen if we had a spare room?

00:07:20: you put our friend into the spare room.

00:07:22: uh me and his partner would wait in The kitchen with uh Just a cup of tea or gas to just chill.

00:07:29: then my partner will go In the main bedroom.

00:07:34: The sperm donor would call for his boyfriend.

00:07:35: He'd go into the spare bedroom and use a syringe from Boots to collect,

00:07:42: by the way... From Boots?

00:07:46: I love that level of detail

00:07:49: available everywhere!

00:07:49: How do you get a syringe when you've got a big dog in need?

00:07:52: if he medicine too they'll give

00:07:53: one?!

00:07:53: It's amazing!

00:07:55: And then take this syringe put it into the syringe hence a relay and then I'd go into the main bedroom to my partner, put it in hers.

00:08:07: And we would wash our hands very thoroughly... ...and go to brunch!

00:08:10: That's how it works.

00:08:12: So civilised?

00:08:16: Did you all have sex...?

00:08:18: No.

00:08:18: You

00:08:19: don't necessarily have

00:08:19: to do

00:08:20: that.

00:08:20: Can not think of anything worse for us personally.

00:08:24: Sure they'd feel similarly in that way.

00:08:28: Yeah thats so interesting.

00:08:30: But when people are like, how do you do it?

00:08:32: We're like oh we did the traditional lesbian way.

00:08:34: And um You know People go with that turkey baster or the usual get together in like this and wasn't like That at all.

00:08:41: It became very Um.

00:08:43: I guess we wouldn't have even thought of doing it Like this until The clinic.

00:08:46: essentially once they told me that i couldn't Which was not true which turns out long story.

00:08:53: They said well why don't we take your sperm donor sperm And we'll use a syringe like device and then put that into your partner.

00:08:59: Then hopefully she can see, naturally... But it cost so much money thousands of thousands pounds!

00:09:05: Fortunes doesn't it?

00:09:06: So what I say is are you willing to spend thousands of pounds?

00:09:09: simply avoid

00:09:10: awkwardness?!

00:09:11: No.

00:09:12: Yes.

00:09:14: That's why we did this at home.

00:09:16: in the end It became such a rip-off.

00:09:21: really If you got the resource, which we did and by resource I do of course mean Spam

00:09:31: is a resource often given out for nothing.

00:09:35: I've been nothing loads.

00:09:38: Listen this what i said.

00:09:40: You know like it's all going its go to waste.

00:09:42: guys

00:09:46: spread the love.

00:09:48: Yeah that Is yeah not my not my scene but I appreciate that it is some people's and lovely.

00:09:57: i've never been in contact with so much sperm in my life, there was a period of time...

00:10:02: you washed your hands as the important thing.

00:10:05: then a brunch after we

00:10:06: did?

00:10:07: We did!

00:10:07: It was yeah..it's real experience.

00:10:11: There's this song on my show called Brunch which talks about like it's a song about when you go to bruntch Fenders essentially just masturbated and you're all just sat there eating a bunch of trying to pretend that everything's normal.

00:10:26: And it's very odd until it's not

00:10:31: I think more awkward scenarios where someone was full of jizz.

00:10:36: Yeah, so I've been there.

00:10:37: That is

00:10:38: simply the queer community.

00:10:39: I would say yeah, that sort people we are.

00:10:43: You said they were.

00:10:44: you said this song About that he'd done about going to brunch what?

00:10:51: kind of decides what gets a song made about it and what doesn't.

00:10:54: What's the process?

00:10:55: And that is, That's heavy thing isn't?

00:10:57: It's crazy!

00:10:58: So we came into this.

00:11:01: so I'm gonna stand up originally like sort just...that's why i started doing.

00:11:04: but also write music was an interesting way to get those things mixed.

00:11:10: I started working in this show as a stand-up show, and then worked with an amazing team of people.

00:11:14: I think it started off as a stand-up show, something very solitary for me.

00:11:30: And this was like... This is the story that I wanted to tell!

00:11:33: Then we got this amazing team involved and were really lucky to have arts council support or things like that where you could develop it.

00:11:40: So i had a conversation with my director who's an amazing person, Elan Isaac Who....I feel there are songs in this and.. I'd already written one song A sad song actually.

00:11:50: That has been sort of when giving up hope I was like, that should go in it.

00:11:57: And then we were sort of going.

00:11:58: where are the beats?

00:11:59: In this thing... That should be songs!

00:12:01: So i had an idea from a song called Choosing Family about picking who would be your sperm donor out all your friends and Elan You know, when you went to brunch but looking at the mayo being like oh that's gross there should be a song about that.

00:12:14: and I was like yeah great.

00:12:15: And so i'd go away and write this song where they're like.

00:12:17: does this make sense?

00:12:17: Then we would all be like Yeah!

00:12:18: That is great.

00:12:20: That why I think collaboration has been really key for this show.

00:12:23: actually because it... When your working on something so personal There are quite normal things in which I have to work by myself not involve anybody else.

00:12:35: I think if you work quite solidarily, it can be quite emotionally challenging.

00:12:39: Having people around on something like this is important.

00:12:41: so yeah oh god i was so lucky and grateful to have that support.

00:12:46: Two questions off the back of What is the criteria for who whose sperm you want and what's the approach?

00:12:55: like someone said this to me again?

00:12:58: So distant distant family on the other side because I'm married was like

00:13:02: we

00:13:02: Me in my partner would really like to have a baby, and we were discussing which of our friends Would be the best thing.

00:13:08: We thought you and i was like I don't know, maybe not.

00:13:12: But what is the criteria for picking who you want to work with on this collaboration?

00:13:17: It's a very good way!

00:13:22: The songwriting process... I wanna know about that.

00:13:25: What are in your shower and you're like...

00:13:28: Is it

00:13:28: the brunch or the jizz?

00:13:31: Very much so.

00:13:33: choosing a sperm zone That's interesting and especially we've got like a really amazing, the queer community of Cardiff is expansive.

00:13:40: I find it fantastic people And It was very much A question about sort-of going through.

00:13:45: all our friends would be Like Would you be up for this?

00:13:47: So many Of them were Up for it which Is what You don't expect.

00:13:51: so suddenly You become like.

00:13:52: it's like judges houses at The X Factor When your like.

00:13:54: okay well Who is gonna like a golden buzzer?

00:13:57: i guess I'm sat there being like I Don't know because People are.

00:14:01: I guess the most important thing for us was like they were up for The sort of family arrangement that we wanted which is to mean my partner with me parents.

00:14:08: We don't really want to share our responsibility.

00:14:10: You know, you want someone?

00:14:11: Me we don't.

00:14:12: our child doesn't need to have a dad.

00:14:13: We're not searching for Dad.

00:14:16: But when people who are in our child's life Who will care for it and love it And continue to be your friends It made sense because these...we've got two friends more Like our closest friend.

00:14:26: One of them It was Spooner and his boyfriend

00:14:30: The one with lovely hair.

00:14:32: They've both got lovely hair, but the boy friend is when we asked first because he went to school my partner and so they were running each other years and years And he just wasn't keen for it But his boyfriend was really up for him.

00:14:46: We're really close friends.

00:14:47: I guess i'm closer than this boyfriend.

00:14:48: then My partners are closer.

00:14:50: No!

00:14:50: I'm closer as well.

00:14:51: This room's only my partner plus a boyfriend Originally...and Then we all just like family now Really and have been for a while to be honest way before baby.

00:15:01: So that's where it came down, you know what I think is tricky when people are on the argos of as my partner has described which is like the sperm banks online right?

00:15:15: You're scrolling through them and can't be very selective so focus on the wrong things I can't imagine.

00:15:25: Yeah,

00:15:25: exactly!

00:15:26: Because you don't know these people and they write letters or do voice notes... I'm not cursing on that at all actually but it just felt to us like why wouldn't we explore this first?

00:15:45: go for.

00:15:45: I've seen many documentaries where people are like we want a blonde, below-eyed man and i'm like.

00:15:50: that's

00:15:50: worrying though isn't it?

00:15:51: It was just like...we want Aryan child!

00:15:53: I'm like

00:15:54: um

00:15:55: yeah that's why don't one

00:15:56: needs to be able to pick.

00:15:57: So exactly so this is tricky but then also three people got to choose.

00:16:01: So they could create, you know it's one of those things and I think for us It really was like a kind person who what they're involved in how?

00:16:09: They would respond to being Being In this position i guess once the child eventually arrived.

00:16:17: Yeah totally i mean these are off.

00:16:18: yeah we're lucky that there are friends so We Know them inside Like i know everything about.

00:16:23: i blow too much About These two.

00:16:24: actually i Would say um this thing don't around his boyfriend And he knows Too Much about Us and That's good Um, but yeah.

00:16:31: I don't know how you'd go about it when your online and i have friends who've used some spirit owners from banks And I think is a tricky process?

00:16:38: It can be really difficult for people to um no where To start on what their criteria Is because You got stuff like.

00:16:47: this person does This sort of job.

00:16:50: so if we're not dating its tricky But also new you know who's to say that like.

00:16:57: I think anyone whose like the only way children should be brought into their world is through a loving marriage between man and woman are absolutely completely deluded.

00:17:07: You know biological capability exists, it has been between people who aren't romantic partners for many years!

00:17:13: And um... That's okay y'know?

00:17:16: We all need to get on board with that.

00:17:19: there were awful things online.

00:17:20: People go crazy about This.

00:17:22: one needs a dad on this business.

00:17:24: There were so many people with straight parents who don't have a dad.

00:17:28: there are People Who Have Single Moms.

00:17:29: you've got single dads You know, we've Got People Who Are Whose Have Stepdads Or Stepmems or you Know All People Who Were Raised By Their Grandparents and I think all of that like I can't need to love.

00:17:39: That's what's important.

00:17:41: the biological capability To Have A Child Is There Between Friends?

00:17:45: Who's To Say The Two Friends Can't Have A Baby?

00:17:46: Straight People Have Been Doing That Also For Many Years.

00:17:50: Yeah, I don't see that it's like this.

00:17:53: It's not really as revolutionary is even we would like to think.

00:17:56: sometimes I think Exactly.

00:18:02: you know i've got a friend who his parents were never Married and they sort of had a fling.

00:18:07: And then so they just what?

00:18:08: They were friends.

00:18:09: Who are these kids?

00:18:10: and then there was actually another one because he loved our kid.

00:18:12: So they did and maybe just friends together.

00:18:14: You know

00:18:15: I think it's.

00:18:15: can you provide emotional security, isn't it?

00:18:17: Can you provide emotion security and look after this kids.

00:18:20: And ground them on thinking about the long run?

00:18:21: yeah... and they're people i want to be parents

00:18:25: totally.

00:18:26: So your partner is also a brown Welsh person, two people of colour queer doing what we'll call the DIY home conception.

00:18:36: That's not the face.

00:18:37: I love that term DIY Home Conception but it's like the mainstream puts on The Queer Family story isn't?

00:18:44: Whenever he gets reported normally its like two cis white gay middle-class men look like West Street thing.

00:18:52: And that we're having, well.

00:18:53: We've adopted and that's the narrative that

00:18:56: spawned does

00:18:58: kind of.

00:18:58: your slightly more unique version of That just doesn't feel visible in how the show is being received generally?

00:19:06: Absolutely I mean i was astonished to know there were other people who have done this because you think from The way the media presents Queer parenthood that This Doesn't happen and that we are a rare case.

00:19:17: so trust me You Know we've got things into development with Got stories where trying to sell because I think it's not for lack of trying.

00:19:24: But, you know... It has been really like... Oh God!

00:19:27: I hate to use this word as if he feels very American or powerful.

00:19:31: so hold the narrative.

00:19:32: when making theatre in a live experience You have direct access to that audience and don't need someone who can tell me yes but here is a platform just do it.

00:19:42: What i found with that audience members Is almost different than normal comedy gig.

00:19:48: Definitely because it shows basically musical at this point.

00:19:51: But the audiences are coming with their own stuff and I started off like, I do this show then bow Then i'd leave.

00:19:58: And it was becoming like apparent to me especially based on message that people wanted to chat afterwards.

00:20:05: Are you used?

00:20:06: No So thats been new.

00:20:09: It's really amazing The number of people who have met in similar situations or different situations Have adopted.

00:20:21: being able to become a parent in the way that you choose and not be confined by what society or, um...you know biological preconceptions people might have about yourselves are.

00:20:34: And I think that has been so incredible!

00:20:37: It's really it's been the most rewarding piece of work i've ever made my life hundred percent just based on like the people i've met.

00:20:47: Honestly, every time I do it.

00:20:48: I speak to someone new with a new perspective on something and its also meeting kids who are born this way Who were now adults?

00:20:55: You know how old

00:20:57: like.

00:20:57: i guess This has been going on long long long time

00:21:00: A long Time!

00:21:00: I think the oldest probably that I've met is about forty but you Know we're like oh yeah um...I got two.

00:21:04: I have Got Two Mums And Dad or whatever.

00:21:06: their situation currently Is To be clear.

00:21:09: our kid's just got two mums.

00:21:11: It doesn't have a dad That's okay.

00:21:12: That's the relationship amongst everyone.

00:21:16: But people have got all sorts of relationships, you know?

00:21:18: There are people coming like I've had lesbians come in with gay friends and two men who each have respective relationships for one another.

00:21:28: then they're co-raising as kids.

00:21:30: how incredible what an amazing support system that child is going to has.

00:21:35: pregnant people arriving at my show Trans people who are pregnant coming to my show, you know trans men or trans masculine People and I think all of that stuff is just like we're.

00:21:45: so it's not spoken about Which really makes me.

00:21:49: It makes me sad because it's the detriment Of all our kids more than anything else.

00:21:52: You know We look at what?

00:21:54: I want to be able To share this story with my child And i'm not embarrassed for the store.

00:21:58: i'm So proud every single moment of how she was made bit of the end to show where I talk about all.

00:22:07: that's what this shows for really, video.

00:22:10: one day i will show it to her.

00:22:11: warts and all you know because we haven't got The Beautiful Story.

00:22:17: We're only just now getting to the more palatable version of This Story which is two gay men middle class and adopting a kid!

00:22:26: You know when were seeing beautiful stories?

00:22:28: And an amazing friend called Dave James who has written the Emmy Award winning series Lost Boys and Fairies, which I thought was so touching.

00:22:34: And beautiful fantastic!

00:22:36: That's his real lived experience is of adoption with this partner.

00:22:40: If I'm God that story has been told... Can we do

00:22:43: our stuff?

00:22:44: It really moved the needle didn't it in terms of understanding about

00:22:48: people

00:22:48: exist to do this

00:22:49: exactly?!

00:22:49: Exactly!!

00:22:50: And i just hope that we can continue tell those stories and see them more on screen because you know the party life or whatever and a lot of us it is very domesticated boring individuals who want to make toasts, soldiers and ex-soldiers whether it's called sitting watch bluey all day which now my existence.

00:23:13: Honestly

00:23:14: I can think of worse thing than sit in watch all day that our nieces and nephews are big fans so i've sat through all of them.

00:23:22: there's this long tradition of queer artists.

00:23:24: using comedy as armor isn't being funny.

00:23:29: Some people don't have to sit with an uncomfortable feeling for too long.

00:23:33: It's almost like a release valve, isn't it?

00:23:35: To make the point – Release Valve!

00:23:37: Do you think your wage does

00:23:39: that?!

00:23:40: Yeah absolutely and I think my work comes from me as a person in life.

00:23:45: And what actually doing this job is allowed be do is compartmentalise that like sort of defence mechanism so that when I'm in my real life, i can be more vulnerable with people.

00:23:55: And it's actually just improved my relationships day to day because... ...I am able to be a person who has feelings and thoughts and is affected by things.. ..and for a long time in todays daily life I wasn't able do that cos'it would have been ha ha ha!

00:24:11: Is here something else?

00:24:15: It's an arm and helpful definitely still but I think it can really affect a lot of queer people, the defence.

00:24:25: The walls that we put up because... We're unable to access each other.

00:24:29: Because were just hidden away behind like a glazed sort-of look.

00:24:33: and i think if you could channel that sort of defence into some art or something even something else maybe your like maths person If you can channel all that defends in to another thing It allows you be you for make friends And, you know and be honest with them about who you are.

00:24:54: How do you feel?

00:24:54: What did they think of things rather than everything?

00:24:56: having to beat one big silly joke which can't be fun sometimes but it's nice I've learned over the last couple years doing this as full time.

00:25:09: my job is like power being earnest in your real life.

00:25:14: what does that mean

00:25:16: by

00:25:18: that?

00:25:18: For a while, the conversations I was having with people were so surface level because i-i was unable to talk about real serious things without...I don't know.

00:25:28: Just felt unable to do that, I think.

00:25:31: um Because I just felt like everything.

00:25:33: it sort of compartmentalizing those things and being able to go ''I can do this on stage but I'm allowed to be me''.

00:25:38: And a real human being with real thoughts and feelings outside of that.

00:25:43: It's been really healthy for me I guess and i think, don't know.

00:25:49: I think there are a lot of people like it.

00:25:50: you speak to...I meet especially younger gay people.

00:25:53: who what do you really feel in?

00:25:58: Yeah because

00:26:00: everything is kind of what we're saying.

00:26:01: It lands as joke or way of just yeah.

00:26:06: am i describing this properly?

00:26:07: What

00:26:07: hilarious and funny!

00:26:09: And that's great.

00:26:10: but also It doesn't stop.

00:26:13: And that's what I was like for a very long time and it exhausted me to my core, um...and i think you know You don't owe that anyone is why they want to say two people really?

00:26:30: You don't know hiding your feelings and repressing them in favour of making... In favour being palatable to other people.

00:26:37: To not

00:26:37: make all the

00:26:37: people feel

00:26:38: uncomfortable kind-of thing.

00:26:40: Honestly,

00:26:40: yeah.

00:26:40: And there comes with brown as well.

00:26:42: I think for me For a long time it's like just constantly trying to be like.

00:26:45: I know that everything about when you're a brown queer person Aswell i think People don't Know how to interact With you or what they can put you in A box because They have this very rigid idea What a Brown woman is rigid idea of what a lesbian is or very, you know and I'm sure this isn't the same for everyone really.

00:27:03: And so if you inhabit multiple minority identities like that... The best way to just get people's put in your new box is to be funny!

00:27:10: And go oh that person.

00:27:11: it actually was just funny.

00:27:13: That s-that s what they are.

00:27:14: Funny

00:27:14: i can deal with

00:27:15: this part.

00:27:16: Yeah exactly.. You could be all those things have feelings I don't know, making other people use their brains it feels like you're taking up space and that's something we are told not to do.

00:27:30: So take out the space have your feelings but also be funny and thats fine as well.

00:27:34: i hope im still fun to around.

00:27:35: theyre not just a constant drag.

00:27:37: she has

00:27:39: gone

00:27:40: so serious!

00:27:43: Drawn myself don't drawn to.

00:27:49: I think as a young could

00:27:50: have the real conversations on top of being funny.

00:27:53: Yeah, yeah.

00:27:54: On the next episode like

00:27:55: oh, I can't believe me falling up was cost me a blooming star bloody star.

00:27:59: All right they've got plenty of other stars for the publication.

00:28:02: Yeah

00:28:03: take one from

00:28:05: this is outcast world.